Breaking through the fog of lies: An exclusive interview with Pastor Qiu Maosong on the evil deeds and countermeasures of the "fraud group" in the Chinese church world, as well as the responses of lawyer Liu Zhepei and Professor Wen Yingqian

Interview/Lin Minwen

"Steaks are on sale in the supermarket this week, hurry up and buy them!" "I'm just telling you! According to insider information, this stock will definitely rise!"

Based on the mentality of "sharing good things with good friends", we can often get these "profitable" news from relatives and friends, from shopping to investment. After hearing the news, whether you laugh it off or respond with action often depends on whether you are interested in the content and your relationship with the source.

However, when the news sounds really good beyond imagination, especially when the source of the news is a "devout Christian" and the purpose is to "expand the kingdom of Christ," do you respond by "thanking and praising the Lord" or do you do it yourself? A red light of caution lights up in your heart?

Pastor Qiu Maosong, who has served as the director-general of the "Los Angeles Chinese Church Workers' Association" since 1991, gave a serious and sincere warning: Be cautious, be cautious!

In this exclusive interview, Pastor Qiu not only exposed the evil deeds of "fraudulent groups" in the Chinese church world, analyzed the fraud patterns, and also proposed protective countermeasures. I hope that by sounding the alarm, I can help readers set up a line of defense and break through the fog of lies based on the truth.

Weaving a seductive snare

For several Sundays in a row, Sister Zhang (pseudonym, the same below) came to attend the worship service with a sad face. Mrs. Zhao saw this and silently prayed for this single mother. She called Sister Zhang on Monday and asked her what was going on. Sister Zhang hesitated for a while, and then she said that Pastor Chen from a neighboring church had borrowed money from her a few days ago, but had not paid it back when the time came, which put her under great mental and financial pressure.

The teacher’s wife comforted her by saying that if there was a real need, the church could help first, but how much money did she lend? Sister Zhang said that together with the deposit and the home equity loan (Home Equity Loan), the total amount exceeds US$400,000. The teacher’s wife was very shocked and asked why Pastor Chen needed such a large sum of money. Sister Zhang shed tears while telling the whole story of the incident.

A few months ago, Pastor Chen came to visit with his wife, caring about her current situation and counseling her on how to get along with her children. Before leaving, Pastor Chen mentioned that God had recently given him a great grace: a retired missionary wife living in Europe was willing to use her husband’s inheritance of US$3 million to support the missionary work of the Chinese church and sponsor the pastor personally. Missionary funds needed. However, after the 9/11 incident, the United States strictly censored large remittances from abroad. Please pray for this matter together with Sister Zhang, hoping that it will be completed smoothly.

Later, Mrs. Chen called Sister Zhang to borrow money. She said that the handling fees and legal fees required for remittance exceeded the expected amount. If she gave up, the original investment would not be refunded. Mrs. Chen promised that she would return the money in full after two months, plus 50% interest. Because she was sincere in her words and was a spiritual elder whom she had trusted for many years, Sister Zhang did not doubt that he was there. She immediately went to the bank, canceled the fixed deposit, and took out her life savings to give to her.

About a month later, Pastor Chen and his wife visited Sister Zhang again and invited her to pray urgently for the remittance procedures because there were many obstacles. Pastor Chen emphasized that the wives who are willing to donate really hope to see the Chinese gospel prosper, but they need more funds to invest first, complete the necessary procedures and pay inheritance tax. Ask her to consider mortgaging her house and using an equity loan to help Pastor Chen pay the related expenses. Sister Zhang knew that this would put her financial situation into immediate quandary, but in order to carry out missionary work, she was willing to endure a few months of inconvenience, not to mention the 50% profit!

Unexpectedly, when the deadline came, the money was not recovered. The more Sister Zhang thought about it, the more she realized something was wrong, and she mustered up the courage to talk to Mrs. Zhao in her church. Mrs. Zhao accompanied her to ask Pastor Chen’s church elders and co-workers. The elders were shocked and asked Pastor Chen to come forward and explain. Only then did they find that Pastor Chen not only invested all his own assets, but also borrowed money from Sister Zhang and other members, totaling more than a million dollars. Millions of dollars.

▲Beautiful propaganda and moving rhetoric are by no means equal to facts and truth.

Remove spiritual packaging

Several similar incidents have occurred in Chinese churches in North America. The scam is carefully designed by a highly organized group, a set of spiritually packaged lies, and is specifically targeted at churches. In the initial email, the other party will say that after "fasting and praying, and eagerly seeking God's will," "God personally revealed the need to develop the Chinese gospel ministry," and pointed out that "you are the person God wants to bless." At the same time, we promise to donate a large amount as missionary or church building funds. These rhetoric can easily impress zealous missionary pastors and Christians. According to Pastor Qiu Maosong’s analysis, the scam “changes the soup without changing the medicine.” Although the content is different, it can be roughly summarized into the following model:

1. Touching story:A devout Christian entrepreneur from Africa or Europe dies suddenly. In order to obtain her husband's inheritance that has been frozen by the government, the widow has to go through complicated procedures and specify that the inheritance will be used for missionary work in the future.

2. Attractive returns:Emphasizing that "all things work together for good for those who love God," he promised that as long as he contributed funds to help recover the inheritance, he could receive millions or even tens of millions of dollars in return in a short period of time.

3. Reasonable procedures:Start by asking for a small amount of money to pay for attorneys, bank fees, and estate taxes.

4. Continuous pursuit:After investing a certain amount, the other party kept asking for more money using excuses such as "things are more difficult than imagined" and "government officials asked for bribes." Every time, I guarantee that "this time must be the last time." If we don't continue to invest money, "it would be a pity to waste all the previous efforts."

So, why find a pastor? Pastor Qiu Maosong believes that fraud groups will never expect just one person to take the bait. Because preachers can easily gain the trust of others and have a wide range of contacts, through them, they can extend their evil claws into church members.

Didn’t the deceived pastor have any doubts about the scam?

Pastor Qiu’s view is that the original intention of these pastors is to sincerely assist the struggling members of the Lord in recovering their frozen assets. The huge rewards convinced pastors that this was God's way of responding to missionary needs. What is saddening is that the deceived preachers are victims, but because of the huge amount of money involved, they are often asked to leave the church, suffer the consequences of being ruined, and lose the opportunity to serve God. There are also brothers and sisters who have lost trust in the pastor and therefore left the church. If the church's public funds are misappropriated, the church building and missionary funds raised over the years will be lost, and the development of the ministry will stagnate. The trauma to the entire Kingdom of Christ cannot be measured in monetary terms.

Establish a line of defense

Ever since he learned that pastors and brothers and sisters have been deceived, Pastor Qiu Maosong has tried his best to remind and educate the Chinese churches, not wanting anyone to fall into the trap again. He suggested that individuals and churches set up lines of defense based on the following principles.

【Personal defense】

1. Be cautious and self-disciplined. Many people who are deceived believe that they are trying to help others and think that the money can be used for God's work. Just imagine, if it wasn't for unexpected wealth, how could people relax their vigilance? In order to avoid being tempted, when receiving such emails, it is best not to have any wrong thoughts, eliminate them immediately, do not even read them, let alone forward them. If everyone is honest about their motivations for helping others, they can avoid the risk of being deceived.

2. Be “as nimble as a snake”. Even if you are very moved after reading it, you still have to be wary of this kind of "unexpected blessing" and "wonderful grace". Before taking action, seek advice from professional accountants and lawyers. Due to rampant scammers, many banks handle huge remittances. Especially when the recipient is in a third world country, they will take the initiative to ask whether the remittance is for inheritance, hoping to remind the remitter to avoid being deceived. Although there are countless similar scams, they are still tempting people to be deceived by constantly updating the packaging.

3. Make a prompt decision.If any of the readers have been deceived, or know of someone who has been deceived, they should immediately stop (or discourage) remittances and report the case to the FBI immediately. Don't be stubborn and have extravagant hopes that "it may be true", "this remittance will definitely be the last one", and "you will get rewarded immediately".

【Church Defense Line】

1. The church is a temple for worshiping God, not a place for buying and selling.Brothers and sisters who are engaged in insurance, real estate, and direct sales should try to avoid soliciting customers in the church. You should especially be wary of investment clubs that use the name of investment companies to promote “guaranteed investment returns of over 18%” in churches.

2. Pastoral deans are stewards of the church. The church manages and operates God's resources and should have control over any investment and seek appropriate protection, such as the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) guarantee, and cannot participate in unprotected investments. Definitely avoid scams where you have no control over the whereabouts and returns of your remittances.

3. The church is where the pastor belongs. We should take the initiative to care about the lives of pastors and provide them with reasonable treatment and benefits. For pastors who are interested in missionary work, the church should set up a fund and publicly support it. The pastor should not bear the pressure of raising funds, thereby affecting the service.

4. The church is the foundation of truth.Many Chinese Christians have achieved outstanding results in the fields of financial management and investment. The church should hold lectures to teach correct “financial stewardship” based on biblical teachings.

▲The best offense is defense──This is true on the court, so why is it not true in investment and financial management?

Welcome the beginning of healing

How do victims get compensation? Because the headquarters of the fraud group is not in the United States, even if the case is reported to the FBI, it will be difficult to enter the prosecution process, let alone recover the defrauded money. In the church in the above case, some brothers and sisters considered filing a lawsuit against the pastor who lent them money, but the deceived pastor was unable to compensate and had to declare bankruptcy. Under the guidance of the elders, these brothers and sisters gave up the idea of resolving the matter through legal means.

Although those who were defrauded and lost money were all brothers and sisters of the church, because it was a private loan from the pastor, the church itself, or even the sect’s conference and general conference, had no responsibility to repay the debt (Editor’s note: Please refer to Lawyer Liu’s different opinion), Pastor Qiu Maosong would seriously appeal that instead of trying to make up for the losses afterwards, it is better to be alert at all times, resist temptation, and take precautions before they happen.

Although financial losses cannot be recovered, can psychological and spiritual wounds be healed? Pastor Qiu firmly believes that when you experience the trough of life, you need God’s kindness and mercy even more. Although the congregation is disappointed with the pastor and the church, they must not give up their faith at this time. Only hold on to God’s promises:“Do not love money, but be content with what you have, for the Lord has said, ‘I will never leave you nor forsake you’” (Hebrews 13:5); “In the world you have tribulation, but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world” (John 16:33b).

It is even more important for the church to take the initiative to comfort the members during such a difficult time and lead the entire congregation to pray sincerely for God’s forgiveness and healing. At the same time, we need to reflect on whether the teaching of the truth is not solid enough, causing brothers and sisters to easily believe lies; or whether we are too focused on the effectiveness of our ministry, even replacing God's position in our hearts.
Pastors who have been deceived should resign to show responsibility. If they sincerely admit their mistakes and break free from the scam, the church must still tolerate them with love. Specific actions include caring about their future, praying for them, and making donations to help them overcome financial difficulties. This is also to obey the command given by the Lord Jesus to “love one another” and to testify to the world that the church can be united in love.

I believe readers have a better understanding of the evil deeds of fraud groups. Yes,"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked. Who can know it?" (Jeremiah 17:9)However, if we think about it more deeply, aren’t these scams that have been perpetrated by church pastors the evil plans of Satan?"Strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered." (See Zechariah 13:7)When one of the shepherds stumbles, the sheep become prey for the devil to plunder. No matter how much manpower, material, and spiritual energy is invested, the church that was finally established is bound to suffer a huge blow.

There is a slogan on the court: "The best offense is defense." Through this report, I sincerely hope that the church can break through the fog of lies and build a protective net with the Holy Spirit of truth, because the Lord we trust is “the way, the truth, and the life.”

Expert response 1

Text/Lawyer Liu Zhepei

Q: In this case, can Sister Zhang file a lawsuit and recover losses from Pastor Chen, who is also the victim?

A: It's legally possible. Causes of action she may bring include:

Breach of Contract— Whether it is a written or oral contract;

Breach of Guaranty;

Misrepresentation— The key is whether Pastor Chen knew about it (this reason may not be established in this case);

Negligence- Refers to general negligence liability and negligence investigation liability (it depends on whether Pastor Chen has the responsibility to investigate);

Breach of Fiduciary Duty- The key lies in the determination of whether there is a "specific relationship" between the two parties (generally used between professionals and clients). Regarding the "specific relationship" between preachers and believers, the courts have different determinations and have yet to be defined by the judge in this case.

Of course, Pastor Chen can raise his defense, arguing that this is just like a general investment, which inherently carries risks and can lead to profits, losses, or even all the money lost. Sister Zhang is willing to borrow money, doesn’t she also see the possibility of huge profits? What's more, Pastor Chen and Sister Zhang are the same, don't they also share the risk? Pastor Chen himself is also a victim. How can he compensate Sister Zhang for her losses?

This case may be hotly fought in the courts, but both parties’ finances have been severely damaged. Where can they find the money to pay for the huge litigation costs? Even if Sister Zhang wins the lawsuit, she may not be able to recover her losses.

Q: Legally, is the church jointly and severally liable?

A: This depends on the reason why Pastor Chen asked Sister Zhang for the loan. Is it for personal ministry or church mission? How long does the transaction process take? Was the church informed in advance? If not, how will the church deal with the incident? Ignore it?

At present, the courts have two schools of thought on this matter. One school believes that the pastor represents the church and the church must bear joint and several liability; if the church knows about it but fails to handle it properly, it should also bear joint and several liability for negligent management. The other group believes that the courts should not get involved in the church’s internal religious beliefs, theological positions and punishment methods, and that the church does not need to bear joint and several liability.

The author believes that the church should have a conflict handling and mediation mechanism in normal times to help both parties face their mistakes, have the courage to take responsibility, confess and forgive each other, and find the lessons God wants us to learn in this matter. This case requires professional assistance as it involves legal issues.

Church leaders should be trained and equipped in conflict handling and mediation so that when problems occur, they can effectively face scars, seek peace, and implement the Lord Jesus’ command to love one another according to the teachings of the Bible. Currently, there is a peace ministry in the United States, also known as Peacemaker Ministries, which provides training in this area.

Expert response 2

Text/Professor Wen Yingqian

Q: If Pastor Chen or Sister Zhang comes to you for advice before investing money, what advice do you have to help him or her avoid scams?

A:Asking knowledgeable people among the brothers and sisters around you first will reduce the chance of being deceived. Pastor Chen, in particular, must report to the Board of Elders when dealing with this type of financial investment, and all the church elders will share the responsibility. Sister Zhang should also ask multiple questions. This is the first step to guard against being deceived. Usually, the letter from the fraud group will say: "This is a serious matter and please do not make it public." Anyone who does it in secret will be fooled. Brainstorming will reduce impulsivity.“A plan without consultation first will fail; but with the multitude of counselors, a plan will succeed.” (Proverbs 15:22)

Q: Faced with the chaos that is rife with fraud syndicates, how should you and I protect ourselves and take precautions?

A: Thanks to the rapid development of high technology, the methods of "fraud syndicates" are also changing with each passing day. In addition to being able to forge fake banknotes that are so real that they keep central banks in various countries struggling to prevent blockages, they can also produce customs documents and bank checks for governments and institutions. Even officials or bank clerks have trouble telling the truth from falsehoods. But the tactic that never deviates from the original method is to use small tricks to defraud big money, and treat the church and ordinary people "equally".

For example, you are notified that you have won a large prize and a check from a well-known bank is sent to you, and you are asked to deposit it into your own account. You must call the company (fraudulent group) that issued the prize within a day or two. If you do so, all your deposits will be defrauded. Light (see the article "Don't Be Fooled." in the "Consumer Attention" column of the June 2007 issue of the English version of "Reader's Digest"). In Taiwan, many gangsters use cash machines (ATMs) to defraud, using excuses such as tax refunds from the IRS, lottery winnings, problems with credit card transactions, or even fake kidnappings (children fall into their hands, so they need to quickly remit money to redeem them) to notify the "scammers" ( or "victim") go to the cash machine and press the buttons according to their instructions, and all your deposits will go into the criminal's account.

Think about it calmly, you and I are both mortals, and the other party is sending emails everywhere in a random way. Will this kind of "wealth falling from the sky" be your turn? There is a good saying in English: "Too good to be true." If anything in the world is too good to be true, it is best to "ignore it" and not to covet "unearned wealth" (reference Proverbs 13:11), because “whoever wants to get rich quickly will not go unpunished” (Proverbs 28:20). If you feel that something is fishy, you should be alert. There may be fraud involved. Pastor Qiu’s interview article has good observations and suggestions in this regard.

Interviewee profile
Qiu Maosong was born in Tainan, Taiwan. In 1985, he was called to full-time ministry. Later, he entered the Chinese Christian Theological Seminary in the United States for training and received a Master of Divinity and a Doctorate of Pastoral Studies. Since 1991, he has served as the General Secretary of the Los Angeles Chinese Church Workers Association. He has a son with his wife, Chen Aimei.
With the purpose of connecting all churches and caring for the Lord’s servants, the Federation of Co-workers holds monthly dinners in the Chinese church community in the greater Los Angeles area and prepares for joint spiritual training, evangelism and other large-scale gatherings. The website of the Federation of Colleagues and Workers: http://www.glacma.org

Journalist profile
Lin Minwen, her childhood hobbies - playing the piano and writing - are now used to serve God. Now living in South Florida, she works full-time as a "husband and goddaughter".

Liu Zhepei's profile

California licensed attorney. Juris Doctor (JD) from Glendale University; obtained Master of Laws (LLM) degree from Pepperdine University School of Law, specializing in conflict management and mediation. Currently serving as a mediator at the Los Angeles Superior Court.

Wen Yingqian's profile is currently a professor at the Department of Economics at National Dong Hwa University in Hualien, Taiwan. He holds the Chartered Financial Analyst qualification in the United States and has worked as an economic expert in the World Bank for more than 20 years. PhD in political economics from Johns Hopkins University, USA.