Days Away from Church, Where Are You?

Interviewee & Photos: Theology Girl Interviewer: Yu Wang

Where Are You When You're Away from Church?

Dear readers, have you ever noticed those who are no longer in church? Have you ever taken the time to listen to why they are no longer there? The podcast Days Away from Church is for those who have left, for those lingering at the church door unsure whether to come in, and also for those who have stayed.

Through her podcast, Theology Girl tackles topics that the church and the Christian community should have been discussing long ago—but often avoid, or simply do not know how to bring up. Topics such as: “Classic Church Sayings 🙄: Your Thoughtlessness, My Tears” “When I Meet Someone Who Is Gay” “Sex: The Unseen Topic” “The Red Line in the Temple” “Politics in the Church” These are conversations that are often uncomfortable, sometimes controversial, yet deeply relevant to the lives and faith journeys of many believers.

What is the driving force behind a podcast that consistently ranks among Taiwan’s most popular Christian podcasts? What keeps its host, Theology AI Girl, producing new episodes every week, updating Facebook and Instagram daily, and engaging in frequent private conversations with listeners and followers?

Join us as we step into the recording studio of Days Away from Church and hear what Theology Girl has to say.

Hearing Their Voices

KRC: How did the podcast Days Away from Church begin? Who do you hope will listen to this program?

Theology Girl: By 2026, I had been involved in ministry for more than twenty years. In the early years, my focus was evangelistic outreach to non-Christians. During training programs, I often heard university students talk about the challenges of adapting to church life and the workplace. This is a group that, within five to ten years, will become key workers in the church. The more I listened and observed, the more I felt compelled to go deeper—to become a source of support for those serving on the front lines, especially pastors. I wanted to do more than provide training; I wanted to offer deeper help. My original professional background was in design and project planning, and my ministry approach centered on counseling. Later, in response to God's calling, I became a licensed counselor.

The COVID-19 pandemic, which began in 2020, prevented people from attending church in person. It led me to reflect on what was missing in our faith lives, including how we might talk about the struggles and tensions of faith in everyday, accessible language. I began to wonder: Could a podcast be a way to do that—from the perspective of an ordinary believer, someone a little older, someone who has walked this road before? Could it help clarify the faith for people who remain in church but have stopped pursuing spiritual growth? And is there a way to help those who may never fully adapt to church culture continue their journey of faith?

The podcast is called Days Away from Church, but its original purpose was actually to explore a deeper question: How do we live as Christians when we are not at church? Because of my background in planning and communications, I know the importance of having a compelling title that captures people's attention. After praying about it, God gave me this name.

At the beginning, whenever there was a topic I wanted to discuss, I would invite people of a similar age and with similar life experiences—people who had also spent time reflecting on their faith—to join the conversation. Understanding the audience is essential if you want to meet real needs. You cannot simply talk to yourself; communication has to be a two-way process. The podcast's Facebook (FB) and Instagram (IG) pages help me understand how listeners are responding.

The podcast and social media pages serve different audiences. The social media pages are updated daily with articles of two to three thousand words. The topics are generally more accessible, designed to spark interest and encourage reflection. The podcast, on the other hand, features in-depth discussions on specific topics, giving those who are genuinely seeking answers an opportunity to hear what experts have to say. Its audience consists of believers who are willing to think deeply and grow in their understanding of the faith. In many ways, it serves as a form of faith education for the general public. The podcast is not aimed at non-believers or people who are not particularly serious about their faith. The issues it addresses are quite serious; they are simply presented under engaging and approachable titles.

The podcast was not originally intended for people who were already “away from church” or even “away from the faith.” In fact, it was only after launching the social media pages that I began hearing their voices. That led to the series, Why I'm Not in Church. Many people who are no longer in church have experienced hurt or disappointment. They find themselves unable to move past the emotional wounds. Often, the church has not known how to help them and has instead offered a long list of what they “should” do.

I have also seen many mature believers with strong critical-thinking skills who recognize problems within church culture. Yet instead of becoming catalysts for reform, they often end up feeling out of place and eventually leave the church. I describe these people as “the voices beneath the surface”—those whom no one seems willing to listen to. It is only through their stories and comments that I have come to realize just how many different experiences and perspectives exist among them.

Years in the Making

KRC: By early 2026, the podcast had already entered its seventh season. Where do many of these thought-provoking and deeply impactful projects come from? What kind of influence do you hope they will have?

Theology Girl: Some topics stay with me for two or three years before I finally address them. For example, I became aware that brothers and sisters with neurodiversity—differences in the way the brain functions and processes information, such as ADHD and autism spectrum conditions—often struggle within church cultures that place a strong emphasis on connection and social interaction. Their experiences can also make others feel uncomfortable. Only after long periods of observation and continual research did I begin to think about how to discuss these issues in a way that would help others understand.

Planning a project involves questions such as: How should the knowledge be structured? Who would be the right people to discuss the topic? Sometimes I do not know anyone suitable, so I have to pray and wait for God to provide the right person. There have been times when I was working on a particular topic and, out of the blue, someone would contact me and say, “I can actually speak about that.”

For example, one episode in the series Sex: The Unseen Topic featured interviews with a brother and a sister who had struggled with sexual addiction. Both of them reached out to me through private messages after I announced the topic. I felt their stories were important and worth discussing, so I invited them to share their experiences firsthand—how they overcame their struggles and what kinds of help they received. For the series on Faith and Politics, I had read many articles written by Pastor Andrew and felt he would be an excellent guest. So I got to know him and shared my ideas with him. I also discuss the interview outline with guests beforehand: What exactly is the goal? How should the key points be developed and presented? They have generally been very receptive to this process.

I believe it is God's intervention. The Holy Spirit is at work throughout the process, making each topic more complete. It is not entirely the result of my own planning.

Listeners are also a source of inspiration. During the preparation stage, I occasionally post thoughts and ideas on the social media pages. People with similar experiences or interests will often reach out through private messages. I spend a significant amount of time every day responding to listeners' messages. As we talk, new ideas often emerge. Because of my background in planning and content development, I can usually recognize when someone's story aligns well with a topic I want to explore. When that happens, I ask whether they would be willing to come on the program and share their experience.

For example, the episode When a Pastor Falls explored the issue of pastoral affairs. Yet that was only a subtopic. The larger issue I really wanted to address was church structure. As more and more subtopics accumulate, the underlying core issue gradually comes into view.

KRC: Have you encountered challenges along the way? What kinds of responses have you received?

Theology Girl: Challenges are inevitable. My primary areas of focus are spiritual abuse and the abuse of power within the church—these are the core issues I care about. Because I have studied them in depth, my thinking has become broad and complex, sometimes disconnected from what most people are thinking about. That makes these topics difficult to present directly. At this stage, I may not be able to address the core issues head-on, but they can be explored through many related subtopics.

After the episodes are released, many people write to thank me. The series Sex: The Unseen Topic, for example, received a great deal of response from younger listeners. I spent many years working in sex education, so I am very familiar with the principles and approaches commonly used within church circles on this subject. In preparing this series, I found myself having to reexamine the framework I was using. It almost felt like doing theology myself—asking whether I could integrate my theological training, my understanding of Scripture, and my views of God and the human body. I wanted the discussion to be different from traditional approaches, relevant to contemporary realities, yet without drifting into the indulgence of sexual desire.

Later, a youth counselor told me that whenever she provides premarital or pre-relationship counseling, she recommends this series to those she is helping. Knowing that counselors see the program as a useful resource for young people is even more meaningful to me than individual listener feedback. I have also heard pastors and ministry leaders comment that some of the topics are rather bold—subjects that traditionally are not discussed in church settings. Yet the program has helped broaden the scope of what can be talked about. For example, after listening to the episode Why I'm Not in Church, one listener felt it became possible for her fellowship group to discuss whether there are times when people simply do not feel like attending church gatherings.

Many of my guests are key opinion leaders (KOLs) whom I have followed for years. Through the process of discussing ideas and recording episodes with them, I have personally been encouraged and enriched, and I have also gained a clearer sense of direction.

At the beginning, I simply knew these topics were important, but I did not yet have a clear vision. It was during Episode 4 of Theology Made Easy, when I spoke with missionary Ai-Lin about the end times, that my understanding of God's Kingdom began to expand. If the church as an institution encounters serious problems and people are no longer able to attend church, then self-feeding spiritually becomes an essential skill for believers. We need to think about how to equip ourselves to grow in our knowledge of the faith, rather than relying solely on pastors to provide all the answers.

At present, I meet monthly with a seminary professor to discuss the issues that concern me. He challenges the limits of my thinking and gives me someone to process ideas with while topics are still in the incubation stage. I also have spiritually mature companions who are highly thoughtful—one studied religious studies, and another studied sociology. They bring different perspectives to our conversations, helping me refine my thinking and adjust my direction when needed.

Complex Problems Rarely Have Simple Answers

KRC: Over the years, have your convictions, your approach to planning, or your interactions with listeners changed in any way?

Theology Girl: The purpose of the podcast is to help Christians live out an authentic faith. Both knowledge and emotions are important. The series When I Have My Devotions tends to focus more on the emotional side, while topics such as how to deal with hurt and how to think theologically about forgiveness seek to integrate both knowledge and emotion.

The culture of Chinese churches in North America tends to place greater emphasis on intellectual Bible study. In contrast, over the past two decades, many churches in Taiwan have been shaped by a more emotionally oriented approach. Traditional hymns have often been replaced by contemporary worship music, and preaching has become more focused on practical everyday applications. Some churches no longer even offer Bible study classes. As a result, many believers derive their understanding of faith primarily from worship lyrics, while sermons tend to emphasize encouragement and empowerment. This can lead to a faith that is less centered on Scripture itself. People's understanding of doctrine often becomes simplified—and, at times, lacking in depth.

For example, a believer might ask, “Will I offend God if I do this?” That question often reflects a relatively early stage of faith. As spiritual maturity grows, the questions begin to change: “Am I growing closer to God?” “How should I respond when the God I encounter in Scripture seems different from the God I thought I knew?” Spiritual growth has a way of unsettling us. It stirs our lives, challenges our assumptions, and compels us to reconsider the values of the Kingdom of God.

For some believers, their understanding of the faith remains limited to what the church teaches or what the pastor says. In churches where critical thinking and Bible study are not emphasized, faith can easily become whatever the leader says it is. When believers raise questions that challenge established teachings, church leaders may feel threatened or uneasy. As a result, an atmosphere can develop in which only one voice is allowed to be heard, leaving little room for disagreement or honest inquiry.

My guiding conviction is this: complex problems do not have simple answers. The goal of the podcast is not to provide standard answers, but to help people return to a holistic theology of the whole person.

Six months after the podcast launched on July 12, 2021, the series Classic Church Sayings was released. A large number of people tuned in, shared the episodes widely, and the podcast remained near the top of the rankings for a period of time. Today, the topics have become increasingly in-depth, attracting listeners who are genuinely interested in exploring these issues. One example is the episode Asperger’s in the Church, which helps people better understand believers with Asperger traits.

To gain a clearer understanding of whether I had changed over the years, I fed all 3,800 articles from my social media page, written between 2021 and early 2026, into an AI analysis tool. The results identified three distinct stages:

• The first stage was a period of building theories and frameworks. I was absorbing and translating theological ideas, functioning somewhat like a guide to theology. I was not merely explaining knowledge, but also asking why people felt dissatisfied with their faith.
• The second stage focused on deconstructing power and recognizing trauma. The emphasis shifted toward addressing real experiences of harm and the ways power can be exercised or misused. It was, in many ways, a response to the disappointment, grief, and anger expressed by so many people who had left the church, and to the question: Why do people leave?
• The third stage focused on public dialogue and empowering believers. The emphasis shifted toward the public dimensions of faith and the importance of spiritual self-feeding. The primary audience was those who remained actively involved in church and still possessed a genuine passion for their faith.

Continuous Refinement

KRC: You invest a tremendous amount of time and energy into your social media pages, creating a space where people feel safe enough to speak honestly. Could you share the original motivation behind this, what you hope to achieve, and what boundaries you have intentionally put in place?

Theology Girl: I want people to experience a faith environment that is not a one-voice-only culture. Some churches worry that exposure to different viewpoints might lead people away from sound doctrine. But I believe that when we truly know what lies at the center of our faith and have confidence in it, we will not lose it simply because we encounter ideas that challenge or unsettle us.

Theology Girl: In the early days, many people criticized me. Some felt I was too gentle and too neutral; others thought I had sided against the church. But because I am secure in what lies at the center of my faith, I can make room for different voices to be heard. It can be uncomfortable at times, but that's okay.

In the past, online church forums often fell into one of two extremes: either attacking the church or defending it, with heated debates dominating the conversation. The vast majority of voices were male, and there was little room for women to express their own experiences and feelings. Why can't we have calm and respectful conversations? Even when we disagree, surely we can still listen to one another and engage in meaningful dialogue. The following principles have helped create a space where people feel free to speak honestly:

• Theology is not the truth itself, but it can help us draw closer to the truth. When we recognize that we do not possess the whole truth, we may become more willing to listen to the voices of others.
• Continuous refinement. If there is still room for me to be corrected, then I need to listen for where problems remain and continue thinking them through.
• Complex problems do not have simple answers. Take forgiveness, for example. It is not a matter of saying the word and putting a period at the end. Since it is not that simple, let's slow down and unpack just how complex it really is.

In the beginning, the social media page was run with very few restrictions. But whenever trolls or hostile commenters showed up, many others would stop participating in the conversation. Over time, the community guidelines became increasingly clear and structured. Personal attacks were removed, and those who repeatedly ignored the rules would lose their commenting privileges. People were free to express their own views, but they were not allowed to attack the views of others in the comment threads. Ironically, these tighter boundaries led to more participation. When people felt safe, more of them were willing to speak up and join the conversation.

I also use AI to help analyze discussions, allowing me to see the different ways believers respond to a particular issue. This gives me valuable insight and helps me think more carefully about the conversations taking place.

The positive and negative feedback I receive does not affect me all that much. It neither wounds me deeply nor excites me excessively. Interestingly, most of the criticism tends to come from men. I believe it is important to have female opinion leaders who can invite people into calm and thoughtful conversations. A female perspective has an important place in these discussions.

As for the daily updates on my social media pages—many of them long-form articles running several thousand words—some people assume I must have a team helping me. The truth is, I don't. I simply share my genuine thoughts in the moment. I have set a personal goal of continuing to grow, and I welcome criticism if it helps me become more accurate in my thinking and communication. The production of the podcast is approached with great care. My hope is that these episodes will not be tied merely to current trends or passing events, but will remain relevant and worth listening to years from now.

The Confidence of Staying Centered

KRC: Are you satisfied with what the podcast has accomplished so far? What continues to motivate you to keep going? And how has your relationship with God changed through this journey?

Theology Girl: To be honest, I am not overly concerned about achievements or measurable results. My hope is that believers will grow in both their commitment to and understanding of the faith, and that pastors will gain a deeper understanding of believers—including the spiritual needs that often lie beneath their complaints and frustrations. What matters most to me is whether I am staying aligned with the center—with the calling God has given me.

Theology Girl: I am certainly encouraged when I hear words of appreciation or affirmation. That is an emotional response, but emotions and convictions are not the same thing. When the number of followers and subscribers grows, I recognize that it reflects a real need among believers. At the same time, I have come to accept that I cannot serve everyone.** My real hope is to influence Christians who are willing to think deeply over the long term—people who are committed to feeding themselves spiritually, living out their faith, and discipling others.

Theology Girl: What keeps me going is, quite honestly, the sense that I dare not ignore the calling God has given me. When I was seventeen, I sensed a call to full-time ministry. Pursuing that calling feels like the fulfillment of my life’s purpose, and it brings me great joy to be engaged in work that truly matters.** When I was considering whether to enter traditional full-time pastoral ministry, I realized that my background in design and project planning was a unique strength that not many people possessed. Rather than setting it aside, I felt it needed to be integrated into ministry. In a sense, I ended up creating a new form of ministry for myself. I see that as an act of grace. It has allowed me to retain a sense of agency and creativity while continually asking where the world's needs intersect with the gifts God has given me.

I am very clear that this ministry is just as important as my work as a counselor. Both are serving the same center. If God were to bring this podcast to an end, I would be able to accept it. Even if the form changes, I believe there will still be other ways to express that center. That makes it less likely for me to become burned out in ministry, because my focus is on what God wants me to do as a person.

Theology Girl: Over the years, my relationship with God has become much more relaxed. In the past, because I was highly self-disciplined, I always had a checklist in my mind, measuring whether I had done enough to be worthy of my faith.** Now I increasingly feel that I do not need a checklist. As long as I am aligned with the right direction, there is a sense of freedom and ease. I used to think that ministry was supposed to involve suffering. Now I see that God cares about my needs. Even though I devote so much time to ministry, which affects the time and income available for my professional work, God continues to provide. He knows my limitations and my needs, and that gives me a deep sense of security.

Where Are You When You're Out of Church?

KRC: Looking back over the years, what are some moments that stand out most vividly in your memory? And as you look ahead, what plans and dreams do you have for the future?

Theology Girl: Looking back on these years, one of the greatest joys has been the friendships I have gained. Through the podcast, I have had the opportunity to meet well-known figures in the Christian community whom I otherwise would never have known, only to discover that we connected remarkably well.** Ministry can indeed be lonely. It is often difficult to find people who care about the same niche issues. I find myself hoping to meet people who have thought even more deeply than I have about these topics.

One particularly memorable experience involved a pastor whose programs I had followed for many years before finally inviting him onto the podcast. During the first and second episodes, he maintained the reserved seriousness one would expect from a pastor. Throughout the interviews, I kept praying that we could move beyond ideas and doctrines and touch something that would connect with listeners on an emotional level. Then, near the end of the third episode, he began to cry. With a voice filled with emotion, he shared a personal story. It became a powerful conclusion to the interview and one of the most memorable moments of the entire conversation.

I believe it was the work of the Holy Spirit.

There were several occasions when I simply could not find the right guest for a topic. Then, at the last moment, the perfect person would appear—sometimes a listener, sometimes a friend who would tell me, “I've actually been researching this subject extensively and would love to discuss it on the podcast.” To me, that is God making a way where there seemed to be none.

There have even been moments I can only describe as miraculous. Once, I had lost my voice because of a bad cold. Yet the moment the recording began, my voice became clear and strong enough to record the episode. As soon as the session ended, my voice disappeared again. To me, that was one of those moments that reminded me of God's gracious provision.

To prepare for the future, I have invested significant time and resources in training in systems thinking. My intuition is that many of the problems within the church are systemic in nature. We need to understand where the system is getting stuck and how it can be adjusted and restored to health. I believe that mental health professionals who are trained in systems thinking may be able to help identify and address these underlying issues. In a way, this feels like an insight God has given me—something I cannot fully explain, but continue to sense and follow.

In 2026, I launched Theology Girl’s Mailbox. My hope is that when responding to listeners’ questions, I can go beyond the surface issue and help people view their situations through the lens of systems thinking.

KRC: What would you like to say to those who have already left the church, to those who are standing at the door and considering whether to leave, and to those who have chosen to stay?

Theology Girl: For those who remain in the church, the reality is that many of you already know exactly what is going on. What I want to ask is this: Have you forgotten your first love? Sometimes the discomforts of church life can slowly wear us down until we become spiritually lukewarm. We may still be attending church, but our spiritual lives have become dry and exhausted, and we have lost our passion. My encouragement is this: if you are experiencing burnout, take action. Don't simply drift along with the current.

Those standing at the door often find themselves deeply conflicted. If they choose to leave, they may lose church relationships that have taken years to build, and finding a new church is not easy. These are costs that need to be carefully considered. What I want to say is this: bring your sense of reluctance, disappointment, or inner turmoil back to your relationship with God. This can become an opportunity for rational reflection—a pivotal moment in which one's spirituality shifts from being centered on a religious organization to becoming personal.

For those who have left, the question I would ask is this: perhaps you see things very clearly, but do you have the self-discipline to sustain your faith? Without the external structures of regularly gathering for worship, studying Scripture, and participating in church life, can your faith truly maintain its depth and quality? Or has it become stagnant?

Complex problems do not have simple answers. In the midst of our complicated humanity, the only way forward is to stay aligned with the God who is unchanging and faithful. I look forward to continuing this journey of thinking, questioning, and exploring together with more believers.

The official website of Out of Church poses this thought-provoking question:

Where Are You When You're Out of Church?

Some leave, wandering in the wilderness, going around in circles...

Some sing in prison...

Every person's story is extraordinary. It is a wrestling match between God and humanity in the darkness, and a moment when the coming dawn may bring a blessing.

When You're Out of Church, Are You Still in Christ?

Perhaps, whether we are in church or out of church, this remains a question every believer must face.

To learn more about Out of Church, please visit:

Official Website:
https://outofchurch2021.wixsite.com/website

Quick Guide:
https://bzaijiaohui- yfjlg3g.gamma.site/